Re: Crash d'un 777 proche Donetsk

[mortimer]

Un article du dailymail raconte que le mh17 a été abattu par un jet... d'après un documentaire de la bbc...

seulement la description du documentaire laisse pensé exactement le contraire...  RDV le 3 mai

En attendant n'hésitez pas à partager, les trolls du kremlins sont de sortie et les sites d'info reprennent l'article du dailymail en masse sans même vérifié... énorme

https://veriteperdue.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/bbc-mh17-les-theories-du-complot/

[Александр]

Pur fake:

BBC MH17 : les théories du complot


Bon, c'est ton lien je vois.

Sur twitter, il y a une volée de boucliers contre ce reportage de la BBC.

[Александр]

Réponse de la BBC:

[mortimer]

Réponse de la BBC:

Tu a un lien stp ?

[Александр]

C'est sur le profil de l'éditeur de la BBC sur Twitter:

Olexiy Solohubenko


Olexiy Solohubenko

@OS1954

News Editor at BBC World Service. RTs are not endorsements. As for views, usual rules apply.
London
bbc.co.uk/news

[mortimer]

C'est sur le profil de l'éditeur de la BBC sur Twitter:

Olexiy Solohubenko


Olexiy Solohubenko

@OS1954

News Editor at BBC World Service. RTs are not endorsements. As for views, usual rules apply.
 London
bbc.co.uk/news

Merci

[mortimer]

Quelqu'un à vu ou sait ou télécharger le documentaire ?

[mortimer]

Pour ceux qui veulent un résumé du documentaire


La BBC accuse la Russie d’avoir abattu le MH17

Le documentaire de la BBC épingle la Russie et sa machine de propagande.  La BBC accuse la Russie d’avoir envoyé le BUK en Ukraine et d’avoir abattu le vol MH17.

Le documentaire de la BBC  Two diffusée ce soir est sans appel.  Les théories du complot sur le crash du MH17 sont nombreuses et le documentaire de la BBC évoque plusieurs d’entre elles. Mais la plus large partie du documentaire démontre que la Russie veut cacher la vérité à propos du MH17.

Dans le documentaire diffusée ce soir sur la BBC, la Russie est clairement montrée du doigt.  Les théories du complot sur des bombes à bords posée par la CIA, ou l’usage d’un avion, ou de plusieurs avions de l’armée Ukrainienne pour abattre le vol MH17 sont écartées.  Comme le documentaire l’a souligné, même le fabricant de missile BUK Russe reconnait que c’est bien un BUK qui a abattu le vol MH17, écartant de ce fait toutes les déclarations et les témoins, protégés ou non concernant des chasseurs de type SU-25 Ukrainiens que la propagande Russe à déversée partout.

https://veriteperdue.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/la-bbc-accuse-la-russie-davoir-abattu-le-mh17/

[benoit77]

L'équipe de Bellingcat dispose désormais des preuves matérielles que c'est bien une batterie de la 53 ème (brigade de missiles de Koursk) russe qui a tiré sur le MH17 depuis le territoire d'ukraine.

Ce qui confirme plusieurs choses:
L'armée russe est en opération militaire de guerre en territoire étranger de la fédération de russie: l'ukraine.
L'armée russe a bien tirer sur un avion civil dans un temps où elle est en opération militaire agressive: l'excuse d'un accident d’exercice ne tient pas.
L'armée russe en guerre non déclarée mais en guerre quand même, puisque liée à la reconnaissance par Poutine de la  prise de la Crimée par les troupes Russes.

L'armée russe a bien tirer sur un avion civil dans un temps où elle est en guerre contre un autre état souverain est de facto a commis un crime de guerre.

http://news.liga.net/news/politics/10486759-bellingcat_nomer_sbivshego_layner_mn_17_rossiyskogo_buka_332.htm

[Александр]

Maintenant, qui va le lui reprocher?
L'OTAN s'organise et envoie 4 divisions américaines supplémentaires aux frontières de la Russie.
Les pays Baltes s'organisent au cas d'une invasion russe.
La Pologne bannis (les bikers de huilo) les camions russes.
L'Ukraine cesse le commerce avec la Russie.
Et quoi?

[benoit77]

Un cabinet d'avocats australien a déposé devant la Cour européenne des droits de l'Homme une demande d'indemnisation contre la Russie et son président Vladimir Poutine au nom des familles de 33 victimes du vol MH17 de Malaysian Airlines.


https://www.zonebourse.com/actualite-bourse/Vol-MH17-demande-d-indemnisation-australienne-contre-la-Russie--22397736/

[Svoboda]

Que vaut le souffle d'une vie ?

[benoit77]

la réponse de l'avocat : 10 millions de $

http://news.liga.net/news/politics/10858353-advokat_rodstvennikov_zhertv_mh17_putin_dolzhen_otvetit.htm

[Александр]

MH17 Crash: Prosecutors increase pressure on Russia - BBC


Dutch prosecutors say they are still waiting for Russia to provide information on the MH17 downing over Ukraine 
       

They said they wanted information about the Buk missile that shot down the airliner, killing 298 people on board.

The criminal inquiry was at "a very advanced stage", they said, and results would be presented after the summer.

The West and Ukraine say Russian-backed rebels were responsible but Russia accuses Ukrainian forces.

Read also Flight MH17 was downed by Buk from Russian 53rd division - Bellingcat

In a statement, the Dutch-led prosecutors said they had made "several requests" for assistance - but were still waiting for information from Moscow.

They said a few issues, including forensic tests, were taking more time than expected. Full story

[benoit77]

Publication du rapport préliminaire de l’enquête du MH17 :

https://www.om.nl/mh17-ezine-juni2016/e-zine-en.html

On en parle ici : http://news.liga.net/news/politics/11057549-opublikovan_promezhutochnyy_otchet_niderlandov_po_teraktu_mh17.htm

pour l'instant , rien dans nos médias

[mortimer]

Crash du MH17: perquisitions après l'enquête d'un détective privé

Des perquisitions ont été menées en Allemagne et en Suisse et des documents saisis après qu'un détective privé allemand a enquêté pour un client inconnu sur la cause du crash de l'avion MH17 en 2014 dans l'est de l'Ukraine, ont indiqué mardi le ministère public et un quotidien néerlandais.
Parmi les objets saisis mercredi dernier en Allemagne se trouvent des "papiers apparemment explosifs" grâce auxquels les enquêteurs "espèrent se rapprocher des responsables du crash du Boeing 777" de Malaysia Airlines, d'après le quotidien populaire néerlandais De Telegraaf.
Selon le journal, le détective privé en question aurait reçu une récompense de 17 millions d'euros (contre 30 millions promis) de la part d'un riche donneur d'ordre inconnu, et a commencé à enquêter deux mois après la catastrophe ayant fait 298 morts le 17 juillet 2014.


http://information.tv5monde.com/en-continu/crash-du-mh17-perquisitions-apres-l-enquete-d-un-detective-prive-111700

Le même détective que l'on mentionnait déjà l'an dernier.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-crash-whistleblower-has-come-forward-with-information-claims-private-detective-10327953.html

[Matt]

J'en connais un qui va encore se faire "encadrer" par l'Occident. 
Suivez mon regard 

[Александр]

Nouveau roman russe: Leur récit du MH17 passe à « pourrait être abattu par un missile lancé accidentellement ».

https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/740431467357044740

http://archive.is/toemL

Tu crois celle-là, t'en croiras d'autres.

[Krispoluk]

Nouveau roman russe: Leur récit du MH17 passe à « pourrait être abattu par un missile lancé accidentellement ».

https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/740431467357044740

http://archive.is/toemL

Tu crois celle-là, t'en croiras d'autres.

Tiens, c'est plus un missile tiré d'un chasseur ukrainien et guidé par la CIA et la Mossad ?

On lit chez eux comme à livre ouvert, donc on peut en déduire qu'ils craignent les révélations prochaines de la commission d'enquête

Pas bon pour eux, auprès des quelques zozos qui croient encore à leurs élucubrations

[Александр]

Avec toutes leurs histoires et versions différente, rien qu'à ce sujet, ils ont perdu toute crédibilité.
Par contre, ils en ont gagné en débilité  

[benoit77]

2 ans plus tard :
en guise de commémoration les zozos du donbass qui veulent se faire passer pour des innocents clament que c'est le gouvernement qui empêche les familles endeuillés de venir sur le site du crash.



http://www.lesechos.fr/monde/asie-pacifique/0211133759710-deux-ans-apres-le-crash-du-mh17-les-ukrainiens-rendent-hommage-aux-victimes-2014903.php

[benoit77]

autre article moins superficiel :

http://www.lejdd.fr/International/MH17-deux-ans-apres-l-impasse-796939

[pyxous]

Crash d’un avion malaisien en Ukraine – Accord sur le dédommagement des victimes néerlandaises

Deux ans jour pour jour après le crash du vol MH17 en Ukraine, un accord a été conclu entre la compagnie Malaysia Airlines et la majorité des proches des victimes néerlandaises pour dédommager ces derniers, indiquent dimanche les médias néerlandais. Les parties ont convenu de ne pas divulguer le contenu de cet accord. Les sommes accordées dépendent des circonstances individuelles.

En vertu de la Convention de Montréal, les compagnies aériennes sont tenues de verser des compensations aux familles endeuillées lors de catastrophes aériennes, quelles qu’en soient les causes.

D’après une enquête internationale coordonnée par le Bureau néerlandais d’enquête pour la sécurité (OVV), l’avion de la Malaysia Airlines a été abattu par un missile sol-air de type BUK de fabrication russe depuis une zone tenue par les séparatistes prorusses. Les rebelles nient toute responsabilité et accusent les forces ukrainiennes, également équipées de ce type de missile.
Le crash a fait 298 victimes, principalement néerlandaises.

[Александр]

President: Those responsible for MH17 tragedy must be brought to justice



President Petro Poroshenko emphasizes that perpetrators of the MH17 tragedy must be punished. Ukraine and the countries whose citizens became victims of the tragedy make every effort to bring them to justice.

“Ukraine remembers every victim of the MH17 tragedy. Terrorism is inadmissible in any form and perpetrators of this tragedy must be punished,” the Head of State noted on the second anniversary of the MH17 tragedy that took place in the sky over Donbas occupied by Russians.

Petro Poroshenko stressed that in order to investigate the crime that took 298 lives and punish those guilty, Ukraine works actively with Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and the Netherlands to create an international mechanism for bringing every perpetrator to justice.

“Civil aircraft, Malaysian Boeing 777 was shot down by Russian terrorists who used weaponry produced and supplied by Russia. A lot has been already done to bring the criminals to justice. The Dutch Security Council has conducted a comprehensive technical investigation into the causes of the disaster. Criminal investigation of the crime is now being completed under the auspices of the Office of the Prosecutor of the Netherlands,” the President said.

The Head of State emphasized: only Russia hinders the investigation. “Abusing the veto, Russia has blocked the UN Security Council decision to establish the International Tribunal on the investigation of the MH17 tragedy, which is an indirect and logical proof of its involvement in the crime. However, jointly with our partners, we are doing everything necessary to bring those guilty to justice,” he noted.

The President stressed that every Ukrainian expressed condolences to hundreds of people who received dreadful news on July 17, 2014.

“Just as every Ukrainian, I share the pain of those who lost their beloved ones in the MH17 tragedy. And I will keep on fighting for every criminal responsible for this tragedy to face a deserved and inevitable punishment,” Petro Poroshenko stated.

Five nations reiterate commitment to bring to justice those responsible for MH17 downing


The permanent representatives to the UN of Australia, the Kingdom of Belgium, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Malaysia and Ukraine, on behalf of their governments, have issued a joint statement on the second anniversary of the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on 17 July 2014 in Donbas.


”The countries recalled their full commitment to take effective measures to bring to justice the persons who are responsible, noting the importance of accountability in preventing future attacks on civil aircraft,” the statement reads.


The countries restated their ”deep sympathy and condolences to the families of victims of this tragic event and to all grieving nations”.


The countries recalled the concern expressed by the Security Council in Resolution 2166 (2014) about acts of violence that pose a threat to the safety of international civil aviation.
The five nations also recalled the demand by the UN Security Council that those responsible for this incident be held accountable, reiterated their commitment to achieving that objective, and further recalled the Security Council`s demand that all States cooperate fully with efforts to establish accountability.


”In that regard, the countries noted the independent technical investigation into the cause of the downing by the Dutch Safety Board, that was conducted in full compliance with ICAO Standards, and its report published on 13 October 2015,” the statement reads.


They also noted the ongoing criminal investigation conducted by a Joint Investigation Team (JIT).
As UNIAN reported earlier, the aircraft was shot down two years ago, July 17, 2014, near the town of Torez in Donetsk region, by the pro-Russian terrorists was shot down Malaysia Airlines aircraft company Boeing-777, flying from Amsterdam – Kuala Lumpur.


The plane was downed by a Buk anti-aircraft missile system. All 298 people on board, including 80 children, were killed in a crash.


Most of the victims – 194 passengers – were Dutch citizens, 38 – the citizens of Australia.


The Dutch Safety Board October 13, 2015 issued a report on the causes of the MH17 crash. It revealed that the passenger jet was shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft missile system.


How MH17 changed the Russian war in Ukraine



On July 17th 2014 MH17 was downed by a BUK-M1 missile launched south of Snizhne. This happened in the middle of the war between Russia and Ukraine, that the Russian propaganda machine franticly tried and tries to portray as a civil war it has nothing to do with.





Ukraine has similarly franticly been blamed for the downing of MH17, by Russian propaganda, MOD and government alike. In the worst case the public opinion and MSM think it was 'an accident by inexperienced separatists who didn't know how to handle the BUK given to them and wrongly pushed the launch-button'.











In this blog I want to investigate what effect the MH17-downing had on the war. At what moment did it happen and how did it change the war?

A brief summary of the war before MH17
After 'Maidan' and the killing of the heavenly hundred, some sort of 'local uprising' began in the Eastern provinces of Ukraine, where a lot of ethnic Russians reside. There was a lot of violent provocation, defection, bribing, propaganda and you name it.


 The focus (or frontline) was on Slovyansk and Kramatorsk. But clashes where also in Mariupol, Donetsk, Luhansk, Horlivka and all the border crossings.

In response Ukraine started the Anti Terrorist Operation or ATO. After a troublesome and deadly start they managed to surround Sloviansk and liberate it together with Kramatorsk.


 In early July the Ukrainian army advanced all along the border up to Izvarino tot try to cut of and control the border with Russia, through which men, supplies and equipment poured into Ukraine.
It looked like Ukraine was doing very well and might indeed be able to get the job done, although their troops were dangerously exposed and stretched along a long frontline.

At the level of Marinovka fierce battles happened all the time to try to cut off the Ukrainian border troops.
A rich supply of MANPADs meant that a lot of Ukrainian aircrafts got shot down and Russia was delivering heavier AA equipment such as Strela-10 and later Panzir as well.

Yet, despite the problems it's Air FOrce and border troops where facing, the Ukrainian Army was on the winning hand.

Something had to be done to turn the tide and so Russia started to shell the Ukrainian border units from Russian soil, but of course portrayed this as 'separatists artillery'. On July 16th videos emerged from Russian GRADs near Gukovo firing into Ukraine. Russia could no longer hide its involvement if this would widely become known. The next day MH17 was shot down.

MH17
A Russian BUK was driven into Ukraine and it shot down a passenger plane. It looked like the separatists made a mistake, because they thought it was an AN-26 but it turned out to be a civilian plane.
But the MH17-BUK was positioned very close to the Russian border and later it became clear that a Russian BUK battery was operational near the Ukrainian border. They easily could have communicated with the MH17-BUK and given it data and instructions.




The war after MH17
Directly after MH17 Ukraine started their next phase and tried to surround Donetsk, Horlivka and Luhansk, the biggest cities in the area. But their border units got completely crushed by Russian artillery across the border and crossing the border. Still their was euphoria among the Ukrainian staff and volunteer units where ordered to advance to Ilovaisk and Shaktarsk.
Also it looks like Ukraine tried to liberate and secure the MH17 crash site, so international investigation could be done, but they never succeeded in doing so.

The volunteer battalions got heavy resistance and this turned out to be because of large invasions from Russian into Ukraine. The first East of Marinovka, the second south of Ilovaisk and the third towards Lugansk Airport. Eventually this crushed and decimated the Ukrainian units there.

So after MH17 Ukraine was dramatically loosing the war.

Up till today Russia is still denying involvement, but two huge Russian operations changed the war:

1. cross-border and crossing-border artillery
   
2. major invasions by the Russian Army
   

Minsk

Minsk peace negotiations tried to stop the parties from fighting, but for Russia this was more part of their plan, to stop Ukraine to retaliate, fight back or attack in an unexpected area.




Thus Russia could concentrate their attack forces on grabbing Donetsk Airport and Debaltseve one by one.




Turning point

The downing of #MH17 happened literally in the turning point of the war. Before the downing Ukraine was winning. After the downing Ukraine was loosing big time.




But what is the connection?




Distraction

When Russia took Crimea, the whole world was looking their trying to figure out what was happening with these unidentified little green man claiming to be 'self-defence'. When it started to turn out these were Russian soldiers and thus Russia was taking over Crimea... MH370 got lost over the ocean.


 All the attention of the world turned away from Crimea towards the search for MH370. Putin could easily finish the job without getting disturbed.




The downing of MH370 was an operation of 'military precision'. People EXACTLY had to know what they were doing (such as turning off the transponder) in order to have MH370 get lost.




Whether you want to believe MH370 was an accident or a deliberate Russian operation, it for sure was a distraction to the Crimea invasion anyway.




With the world looking at Donbass and becoming aware of the Russian involvement a distraction was needed. And there were two. The downing of MH17 was a distraction for the cross-border artillery attacks and the White Truck Charade at Russian Donetsk was a distraction for the invasion East of Marinovka and later Ilovaisk.










A Russian Operation

As a distraction for the cross-border shellings, MH17 was a Russian operation the separatists did not need to be aware of. Why would Russia tell 'local warlords' or even it's own military personnel working there what exactly it's mission was? Even Russian soldiers invading Ukraine were told they were going on an exercise. Downing a civilian plane is a secret mission as little people as possible need to know details of. Not even the Russian crew in the BUK needed to know the exact purpose of their mission. All they had to do was to connect and communicate with the Russian BUK battery near Kuybyshevo and follow orders. And furthermore tell everybody an AN26 was downed and get out of there asap.









Conclusion

The downing of MH17 happened in the middle of the turning point of the war. Before MH17 Ukraine was winning, after they were loosing.



The MH17 BUK was able to (and therefore must have) connect(ed) with the Russian BUKs. The crew could have gotten data and instructions from their colleagues and superiors within Russia.



The effect of the MH17 downing was that Ukraine's air force got paralyzed and nobody was interested to learn about Russia's cross-border shellings.



As such Russia had a perfect motive to have committed this crime.

[benoit77]

La vérité approche enfin le 28 septembre:
http://www.ouest-france.fr/societe/faits-divers/crash/crash-du-vol-mh17-des-resultats-de-lenquete-reveles-le-28-septembre-4425452
http://www.challenges.fr/monde/20160819.CHA2501/vol-mh17-les-conclusions-de-l-enquete-revelees-le-28-septembre.html

évidement en parallèle les opérations intox russe fleurissent:
http://www.palestine-solidarite.org/analyses.luc_michel.180816b.htm


De toutes façon la réaction russe contre l’enquête sous l’égide de l'onu et la réticence du kremlin à fournir leurs soi-disant preuves radar de l'implication ukrainienne pointe les vrais responsables.

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