Et en Russie !

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Thuramir le Ven 6 Mai - 21:32

Александр a écrit:La Pologne interdit Shengen pour le correspondant de RT jusqu'en 2020: graniru

La Pologne actuelle ne constitue plus une référence démocratique, mais elle est devenue le miroir grimaçant polonais du nationalisme russe outrancier dans l'UE. Interdire à un journaliste, quelle que soient les opinions de ce journaliste, d'entrer dans l'espace Schengen ne constitue pas une mesure démocratique. Cette décision n'engage d'ailleurs que la Pologne et pas les autres Etats membre de l'espace Schengen.
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Krispoluk le Ven 6 Mai - 22:15

Thuramir a écrit:
Александр a écrit:La Pologne interdit Shengen pour le correspondant de RT jusqu'en 2020: graniru

La Pologne actuelle ne constitue plus une référence démocratique, mais elle est devenue le miroir grimaçant polonais du nationalisme russe outrancier dans l'UE. Interdire à un journaliste, quelle que soient les opinions de ce journaliste, d'entrer dans l'espace Schengen ne constitue pas une mesure démocratique. Cette décision n'engage d'ailleurs que la Pologne et pas les autres Etats membre de l'espace Schengen.

Ca fait longtemps que je ne suis pas "fritté" avec Thuramir Twisted Evil Ca me manquait... Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Il est de bon ton dans tous les médias "démocratiques" bien-pensants de l'occident, de fustiger l'attitude de la Pologne actuellement...

Me sentant au tréfonds, plus polonais que français, même si mes papiers d'identités sont au nom de la 2e nationalité, je me sens en totale osmose avec le "vieux" nationalisme polonais !
Alors, la Pologne, vieux pays historique, maintes fois dépecé entre ses puissants voisins au cours de l'histoire, a su conserver son âme nationale au cours des siècles, ce que d'autres peuples ont été incapables de faire...

La Pologne a connu les affres de la "libération" et de l'occupation soviétique pendant des décennies. Elle sait ce qu'on peut attendre véritablement des russes Twisted Evil

Alors, s'ils interdisent l'entrée d'un journaliste de RT, c'est une mesure politique à laquelle je ne peux qu'applaudir des deux mains... S'ils se trouve des adeptes du "consensus mou" pour contester cette mesure à Paris ou à Bruxelles, libre à eux de s'aplatir comme des carpettes devant la guerre de propagande sans merci qui nous est menée depuis la Russie. On ne joue pas le même jeu !!!

Fin du coup de gueule Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Caduce62 le Sam 7 Mai - 0:41

"Démocratie" désigne une gouvernance politique par le peuple à l'opposé d'une monarchie, d'une dictature, ....
C'est le monde citoyen qui décide ce qui est bon ou mauvais pour son existence donc il n'y a rien de répréhensible d'interdire ce qui mettrait en péril sa survie Cool
La TOTALE liberté de parole n'existe que dans le monde imaginaire des Bisounours Laughing
Autoriser RT ou Spoutniktamerde équivaudrait à autoriser toutes les propagandes immondes qu'elles soient néo-nazies ou de Daesch Twisted Evil
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Matt le Sam 7 Mai - 9:35

Dans le même ordre d'idée, je reviens sur l'interdiction de sputnik en Lettonie et en Finlande.

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Thuramir le Sam 7 Mai - 18:46

Krispoluk a écrit:
Thuramir a écrit:
Александр a écrit:La Pologne interdit Shengen pour le correspondant de RT jusqu'en 2020: graniru

La Pologne actuelle ne constitue plus une référence démocratique, mais elle est devenue le miroir grimaçant polonais du nationalisme russe outrancier dans l'UE. Interdire à un journaliste, quelle que soient les opinions de ce journaliste, d'entrer dans l'espace Schengen ne constitue pas une mesure démocratique. Cette décision n'engage d'ailleurs que la Pologne et pas les autres Etats membre de l'espace Schengen.

Ca fait longtemps que je ne suis pas "fritté" avec Thuramir Twisted Evil Ca me manquait... Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Il est de bon ton dans tous les médias "démocratiques" bien-pensants de l'occident, de fustiger l'attitude de la Pologne actuellement...

Me sentant au tréfonds, plus polonais que français, même si mes papiers d'identités sont au nom de la 2e nationalité, je me sens en totale osmose avec le "vieux" nationalisme polonais !
Alors, la Pologne, vieux pays historique, maintes fois dépecé entre ses puissants voisins au cours de l'histoire, a su conserver son âme nationale au cours des siècles, ce que d'autres peuples ont été incapables de faire...

La Pologne a connu les affres de la "libération" et de l'occupation soviétique pendant des décennies. Elle sait ce qu'on peut attendre véritablement des russes Twisted Evil

Alors, s'ils interdisent l'entrée d'un journaliste de RT, c'est une mesure politique à laquelle je ne peux qu'applaudir des deux mains... S'ils se trouve des adeptes du "consensus mou" pour contester cette mesure à Paris ou à Bruxelles, libre à eux de s'aplatir comme des carpettes devant la guerre de propagande sans merci qui nous est menée depuis la Russie. On ne joue pas le même jeu !!!

Fin du coup de gueule Laughing Laughing Laughing

Certes, la Pologne est un pays qui a effectivement conservé son identité nationale (ce qui est remarquable), mais cela ne justifie ni ne fonde d'aucune manière que les sentiments d'appartenance nationale violent les dispositions légales des conventions internationales. La loi est la loi.
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Thuramir le Sam 7 Mai - 18:57

Et ce qui vaut pour l'un vaut pour les autres aussi, bien entendu. Violation flagrante de la liberté d'expression, un article publié dans le journal Libération :

En Russie, la prison pour des «reposts»
Par Veronika Dorman, correspondante à Moscou — 6 mai 2016
Vladimir Poutine, à Minsk, en février 2015. Andrei Boubeev a été condamné pour avoir reposté un texte intitulé «La Crimée, c'est l'Ukraine».
Vladimir Poutine, à Minsk, en février 2015. Andrei Boubeev a été condamné pour avoir reposté un texte intitulé «La Crimée, c'est l'Ukraine». Photo Alexandre Zemlianichenko. AFP 
Il devient de plus en plus dangereux de publier ou republier sur les réseaux sociaux des articles ou des images qui déplaisent au Kremlin. L’ingénieur-mécanicien Andrei Boubeev qui relayait un texte du journaliste radical de gauche Boris Stomakhine, lui-même détenu, a ainsi été à nouveau condamné.
  En Russie, la prison pour des «reposts»
Du danger des réseaux sociaux. Un internaute habitant dans la région de Tver, l’ingénieur-mécanicien Andrei Boubeev, a été condamné à deux ans et trois mois de prison pour extrémisme et séparatisme, parce qu’il a reposté, sur sa page VKontakte, le Facebook russe, un article et une image. Il s’agit d’un texte intitulé «La Crimée, c’est l’Ukraine», signé par un journaliste radical de gauche, Boris Stomakhine, lui-même en train de purger une énième peine pour «appels à des actes extrémistes», «incitation à la haine raciale», «justification du terrorisme» ; et d’un dessin représentant un tube de dentifrice avec la légende : «Appuie pour faire sortir de toi la Russie». Le condamné n’aura également pas le droit de se servir d’Internet pendant un an, après sa libération.
Soutien aux nationalistes ukrainiens
Ce n’est pas la première condamnation de Boubeev : il est en détention depuis août 2015 pour les mêmes motifs, toujours pour avoir publié des articles et images sur les réseaux sociaux, cette fois-là en soutien aux nationalistes ukrainiens, et contre la police et l’armée russes. L’accusé n’a pas reconnu sa culpabilité et se considère poursuivi pour ses opinions politiques. L’ONG de défense des droits de l’homme Mémorial l’a qualifié de prisonnier politique.
Cette affaire s’inscrit dans une série de condamnations pour extrémisme, en vertu de l’article 282 du code pénal russe, qui se sont multipliées ces derniers temps, passant du simple au triple, en cinq ans, comme le révèle une étude du Centre des réformes économiques et politiques. En 2011, 137 personnes ont été jugées coupables, contre 414 en 2015, dont l’écrasante majorité, soit 369, pour «incitation à la haine avec recours à l’Internet».
«Littérature extrémiste»
Traditionnellement, l’article 282 est réservé aux militants nationalistes et aux extrémistes musulmans, mais récemment il a été invoqué dans des affaires clairement liées à la conjoncture politique et idéologique, comme celle de la directrice de la bibliothèque de littérature ukrainienne de Moscou, Natalia Chorina, assignée à résidence depuis le 30 octobre 2015, parce que le catalogue contient de la «littérature extrémiste» (le dossier paraît monté de toutes pièces). Se sont également multipliées les condamnations pour offense au sentiment des croyants, participation à des groupes extrémistes ou aux désordres de masse (comprendre manifestation, même pacifique) et, surtout, appels au séparatisme pour toute remise en cause de l’annexion de la Crimée.
En Russie, la définition de l’extrémisme est fondée sur l’idée de changement du régime, de renversement du pouvoir par la violence. Les articles de loi, aussi bien du code administratif que pénal, sont suffisamment flous pour qu’ils soient applicables à l’activité d’opposant de n’importe quelle orientation politique. Une telle condamnation les prive immédiatement du droit de participer à des élections ou organiser des manifestations. «Les représentants des forces de l’ordre sont à l’affût des signaux envoyés par le pouvoir pour pouvoir s’y plier, analyse le directeur du Centre des réformes économiques et politiques, Nikolaï Mironov, cité par Gazeta.ru. Il y a aussi une politique du chiffre. Et un consensus entre les procureurs et les juges pour que ce type de procès arrive à bout».
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  benoit77 le Sam 7 Mai - 19:52

enfance de rêve :
http://news.liga.net/video/politics/10508590-sotsseti_vozmushcheny_patrioticheskim_vospitaniem_detey_v_rf_video.htm


https://youtu.be/ZCvhMs4n0Vg

Пользователи соцсетей возмущены видео и фото воспитания российских детей и подростков, которых в Сургуте родители отдали в школу выживания Беркут и Союз морских пехотинцев Югры. Об этом сообщает местное издание СургутИнформТВ.
Руководит организациями некий Руслан Вышкурцев. На опубликованных материалах дети выполняют "марш-бросок" в Сургуте 24 апреля.
"На кадрах видно, как группа примерно из 25-30 человек, значительная часть из которых - дети, буквально ползала в грязи и воде на берегу реки. Температура воздуха в Сургуте в этот день была + 5 градусов. Очевидно, что многим участникам "марш-броска" происходящее явно не доставляет удовольствия. За кадром отчетливо слышен плач детей", - говорится в сообщении.

Фото: sitv.ru
При этом одна из мам уговаривает сына: "Давай, Миша, чуть-чуть осталось". Судя по всему, именно эта мама спустя несколько секунд и затаскивает ребенка обратно в грязь, когда он пытается выйти на берег.

Фото: sitv.ru
Командует происходящим мужчина в военной форме, он держит в руках предмет, похожий на автомат. Качество видео не позволяет точно определить его личность, но по всей видимости, это сам Вышкурцев.
Загнав детей в грязь, он громко кричит: "Вперед, вышкурцы! Хлебать дерьмо!". Среди произнесенных им фраз также отчетливо можно разобрать "схлопочешь пулю", сразу после чего раздается звук выстрела, а один из ползающих в грязи детей получает удар по спине.

Фото: sitv.ru
При этом автор видеоролика, возмущаясь жестоким обращением с детьми, говорит фразу "Обозленные дети потом будут. Это будущие шахидки и будущие савченки", вероятно, имея в виду украинскую политзаключенную Надежду Савченко, незаконно осужденную в России по сфабрикованному делу об убийстве российских журналистов в Луганской области. Эти слова вызвали неодобрительные комментарии под видео.


Dernière édition par benoit77 le Sam 7 Mai - 20:43, édité 1 fois
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Svoboda le Sam 7 Mai - 20:08

benoit77 a écrit:enfance de rêve :
http://news.liga.net/video/politics/10508590-sotsseti_vozmushcheny_patrioticheskim_vospitaniem_detey_v_rf_video.htm

Mon anti-virus bloque ton enfance de rêve .
Pourquoi ?

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Krispoluk le Sam 7 Mai - 20:43

Svoboda a écrit:
benoit77 a écrit:enfance de rêve :
http://news.liga.net/video/politics/10508590-sotsseti_vozmushcheny_patrioticheskim_vospitaniem_detey_v_rf_video.htm

Mon anti-virus bloque ton enfance de rêve .
Pourquoi ?

Repérée et fichée par le FSB sans doute Laughing Wink
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  benoit77 le Sam 7 Mai - 21:09

Svoboda a écrit:
benoit77 a écrit:enfance de rêve :
http://news.liga.net/video/politics/10508590-sotsseti_vozmushcheny_patrioticheskim_vospitaniem_detey_v_rf_video.htm

Mon anti-virus bloque ton enfance de rêve .
Pourquoi ?
je ne sais pas, j'ai donc ajouté le texte d'origine, les photos et le lien de la vidéo
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Matt le Dim 8 Mai - 21:59

Svoboda a écrit:
benoit77 a écrit:enfance de rêve :
http://news.liga.net/video/politics/10508590-sotsseti_vozmushcheny_patrioticheskim_vospitaniem_detey_v_rf_video.htm

Mon anti-virus bloque ton enfance de rêve .
Pourquoi ?
C'est comme JC, il ne supporte pas la vérité.
Il est russe ton anti-virus?  Laughing  Wink
Je blaaaague et te charie hein!

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Matt le Dim 8 Mai - 22:18

ІнфоВійська України‏



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"Никогда снова" и "можем повторить" - это цивилизационный разрыв. И РФ уже повторяет агрессию, подлость и ложь СССР



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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Александр le Lun 9 Mai - 7:56

Russian Occupied Georgian province South Ossetia announces referendum to join Russia.



South Ossetia, a Georgian province occupied by Russia since 2008, is due to hold a constitutional referendum, the results of which will make it easier for the Russian occupied region become part of Russia.
 

South Ossetia's Russian backed puppet "president" Leonid Tibilov said to  TASS that “We are discussing possible dates [for the referendum] at the moment. There's no specific date yet, but it will happen in the near future. Before August.”.
 

The referendum will center on changing the republic's constitution in a way which would make future incorporation into the Russian Federation easier.
 

South Ossetia was occupied by Russian troops in 2008 and is not recognised as an independent country by the international community.

Currently Russia also occupies the Georgian province of Abkhazia as well and in total about 20% of Georgian lands.

I wonder how long until the regions in E Ukraine, Donetsk andLuhansk, which are currently occupied by Russian backed "rebels" will have their own "referendums" on joining Russia, and I'm sure they will have a turnout of 123% as well, just like the one in Crimea.

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Александр le Mar 10 Mai - 8:20

Top-6 Soviet World War II myths used by Russia today



In the USSR, the myth of the Great Patriotic War was the central to the identity of the Soviet citizen. The practical reasons were obvious: after the end of the war, there was no positive event of equal significance that could play a unifying role. Starting from 1965, the Soviet state cultivated the image of the powerful victorious Soviet nation united in battling the evil invaders in lavish celebrations. Today, it is once again being used as a nation-formative myth, and one that justifies modern Russian military expansion. The Kremlin is convincing the Russian population that by invading Ukraine it is not committing aggression against a neighboring country, but merely continuing the battle against fascists who endanger both Russia and the world. To do that, it perpetuates historical falsifications of the Soviet era.

A new book published by the Institute of National Memory aims to bust Soviet-era myths about World War II. A selection of 50 myths is also available online on their newly created site. Here we analyze the top-6 Soviet myths of World War II which are instrumental in the Kremlin’s modern nation-building policies today.

Myth 1. For the USSR, World War II started on 22 June 1941. The proper name of the war is the “Great Patriotic War,” because the USSR was defending itself against the Nazi invasion

In reality , the USSR started the war on 17 September 1939, when the Red Army crossed the border with Poland, occupying it in accordance to the union between the Third Reich and Soviet Union, outlined by the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. “German and Soviet troops walked hand in hand. This was called a ‘military brotherhood’ in the USSR, before the war broke out,” noted Oleksandr Zinchenko from the Institute of National Memory. After Hitler started the war in Europe, the USSR provided economic assistance to Nazi Germany. The USSR attempted to conceal these facts of collaboration with Hitler with the concept of the “Great Patriotic War,” which started out as a mere ideological cliché pronounced by Joseph Stalin during a radio broadcast on 3 July 1941, after Nazi Germany invaded Soviet Ukraine.


Cartoon of 1939 – occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. via Andrey Lamakin

Today, the concept of “Great Patriotic War” is being used by the Russian Federation as an alternative to World War II in attempts to maintain its influence on Ukraine and post-Soviet republics.

Myth 2. The USSR is an innocent victim of German aggression and was always an enemy of the Nazis

Reality: The USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, that not only defined broad economic cooperation with the Third Reich and agreement on  mutual non-aggression, but also contained a secret protocol by which the USSR and Germany agreed to divide up Europe.


During Soviet times, and in Russia today,  the existence of the Nazi–Soviet pact was explained as a necessity that came only after fruitless negotiations with Britain and France, and that the invasions of Poland were unconnected to the pact. In fact, Stalin willingly ruined attempts to establish an anti-Hitler coalition. During 12-21 August 1939, negotiations with Britain and France about collaborating to meet growing security challenges associated with the Third Reich took place in Moscow, but did not amount to an agreement because the Soviet leadership demanded the right to occupy Poland’s regions Halychyna and Vilenska Oblast (today, western regions of Ukraine and Belarus), which the other side could not condone.

Both Stalin and Hitler were unsatisfied with the world order that came about after World War I, which made their collaboration natural. On 19 August 1939, Stalin spoke about the necessity to urge Europe into a great war, which would be an overture to a “world revolution;” on 23 August 1939, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed, outlining broad economic cooperation between the USSR and the Third Reich, and violating the sovereignty and territorial integrity of a range of independent countries.

The Two Constrictors. “I don’t know about helping you, Adolf, but I do understand your point of view.” A cartoon by Bernard Partridge at Punch-Magazine, 1939

In addition to the stated clauses of the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact, a secret protocol was adopted, dividing territories of Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland into German and Soviet “spheres of influence”, anticipating potential “territorial and political rearrangements” of these countries. The Kremlin denied the existence of the secret protocol to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact up to 1992.
The Soviet-Nazi military collaboration is undeniably clear in photographs from the German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk on 22 September 1939 during the invasion of Poland.


By [url=http://%3ca href=https//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5475936]Bundesarchiv[/url], Bild 101I-121-0011A-23 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de,

The pact had the most tragic consequences for European nations and the world; it is this agreement that became the mechanism opening the doors for a new world war. What followed was the invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany and the USSR, followed by the further carving up of Europe.

Myth 3. The Red Army did not commit war crimes

A popular myth during Soviet times was that the Red Army protected the USSR against fascists, saved millions of people from extermination and brought freedom to oppressed European nations, committing no war crimes in the process. All evidence testifying to the opposite was dismissed as enemy propaganda and falsification.

In reality, facts of crimes of Soviet soldiers against civilians were massive. 4148 officers and a large number of ordinary soldiers were given sentences by the military tribunal in the first months of 1945 alone.
When the Red Army entered East Prussia in October of 1944, one of the soldiers wrote back to his parents in Smolensk: “Now we are allowed to do whatever we want to the German bastards.” “Now our soldiers can see how their houses burn, how their families drag all their possessions with them, together with their viper offspring, – wrote another Soviet soldier. – They probably hope to stay alive, but they will have no mercy.”

In a letter from the front, a Red Army captain wrote: “Our boys already ‘tasted’ all the German women. In general, there are many trophies.” Another officer wrote: “of course, it’s extremely brutal to kill children. But Germans deserve these barbarities.”

Lieutenant Leonid Ryabychev recalled how Soviet troops in East Prussia overtook a convoy of German refugees. The soldiers threw the carts carrying possessions, pushed aside the elderly and children and “pounced upon the women and girls in thousands.”


This photo, taken in August of 1945 in Berlin, was printed in the Life magazine with the caption “A Soviet soldier conflicts with a woman over a bicycle that he wanted to purchase from her”

The extent of the robberies, looting, arson, violence against civilians and prisoners became widespread and was answered with special orders of the Soviet command fronts requiring to restore discipline in the army immediately. However, the measures taken weren’t enough. In late March 1945, a memorandum to the Secretary of the Communist Party Malenkov records another case of mass rape of women by Soviet soldiers in the Grutenneng (Grüttenberg?) estate. These women were not even German. The document states that this estate was a temporary camp for liberated ostarbeiters! One of the official reports of the Main trophy control of the Red Army mentions to thousands of pianos and piano, hundreds of thousands of carpets, furniture and clocks among the “spoils of war” brought back by the Red Army.

Myth 4. The USSR defeated Nazi Germany without the help of allies. The Russian forces could have won the war without the help of other nationalities of the Soviet Union

Soviet textbooks described the role of Soviet allies in the war in a rather superficial manner. While they are blamed for allowing the occupation of the Czech republic and waited till the last moment to open up the Second front, little is said about US help as part of the lend-lease program. During the Cold War, this myth was particularly important, as it elevated the contribution of the Soviet Union and diminished the contributions of its allies who were now on the other side of the Iron Wall. Today, in line with the growing isolation of Russia from the West, this myth is once again accentuated, one recent example being the book of now-Minister of Culture of Russia Volodymyr Medynsky “War. Myths of the USSR. 1939-1945.”

In reality, the lend-lease was one of the decisive factors in the victory of the Allied forces against the Axis. The USSR, and Russia as its successor, still has not repaid its debt for the lend-lease to the USA.
According to different estimates, western equipment added up to:


  • 12-16% of the equipment of the Soviet armored troops;
  • 10-15% of USSR’s aviation
  • 32.4% of its Navy.


Pilots of the 21st Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment stand near the American fighter plane P-39 “Aircobra”, May 1943

Up to 70% of the transport of the Soviet army came from the USA, meaning that the Soviet army drove around mainly on US cars. While the USSR released only 600 trucks for mounting “Katyusha” mortars, the USA contributed 20,000 Studebakers, making it the main vehicle for Soviet artillery. Apart from that, the lend-lease program gave USSR 56% of its railroad tracks and 43% of tires; 42% of it sugar, 108% of meat preserves, 18% of aviation fuel. The amount of locomotives that the West provided exceeded the USSR’s production by 2.4 times and the amount of train cars – by 10.2 times. The amount of food that the USSR received as part of the lend-lease would have been enough to feed a 10-million army over 1688 days, i.e. the whole course of the war.

Soviet BM-13 “Katyusha” rocket launchers on top of US-made Studebaker trucks, June 1945

In the first months of the German invasion of the USSR, over half a million Soviet citizens died. “It is the extensive losses that allow Russian propagandists to pronounce the special role of the Soviet people in the victory over Nazism. In reality, 76 countries took part in the largest world conflict in all human history, involving over 1.5 billion people. Battles took place in North Africa. Around 60 million people died; every 5th Ukrainian and 6 Pole lost their lives in the war. We couldn’t have won without the Ukrainians, nor the Americans, the British, the French, nor the Poles,” notes Oleksandr Zinchenko.

Myth 5. Ukrainians are world champions in collaborating with the Nazis

Reality: Russians military collaboration with the Nazis was larger than that of Ukrainians. Researchers estimate that there were 250,000 people from the “Ukrainian formations” working in the structures of the Wehrmacht, SS, police and others; the amount of people from the “Russian formations” varies between 300 to 800,000, depending on the methodology. This difference is significant, considering that Ukraine was fully occupied by Germany, with its population exceeding the population of the 17% of Russia that was occupied, and that Ukraine was occupied for a longer time.

What were the factors underlying Russian and Ukrainian collaboration? Both Russia and Ukraine were suffering from Stalin’s totalitarian regime and were hoping to overthrow Soviet power. Ukrainians had an additional motive behind their desire for USSR’s defeat – they wanted to restore their state independence. This especially concerned residents of western Ukraine, who were part of the USSR for less than two years, and this short experience was not rosy.

The myth that Ukrainians especially collaborated with the Nazis was cultivated in the USSR not only to hide the facts of Russian collaboration, but also to vilify the liberation movements that fought against Soviet rule and justify the fight of the Soviet NKVD against their remnants after the war ended. The chief target of the attacks is the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, or UPA, which, following a short term of collaborating with Hitler in hopes of achieving an independent state, turned against Germany. Both the Soviets and the Germans considered the UPA’s actions as an anti-German uprising.

More myths about the UPA can be found here: Ukraine’s Institute of National Memory addresses myths about UPA for the new Day of the Defender


Myth 6. Ukrainian nationalists extreminated Jews en masse during the war, especially in Lviv and Babyn Yar

This is another historical myth  myth that is actively exploited by Russian propaganda today with the purpose of justifying the struggle that the Soviet secret police led against the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and UPA up till the end of the 1950’s. In modern Russian media one can often read about “mass extermination of Jews by Bandera [OUN leader]followers,” which aims to create the following logical chain: Ukrainians which want an independent state are nationalists, Ukrainian nationalists destroyed Jews in WWII, consequently all those that want an independent Ukrainian state are secretly antisemitic and criminals.

Paul Blobel – the commaner of the Sondercommandos that shot Jews in Babyn Yar

In reality, it was the Nazis that carried out a mass systematic extermination of the Jews on the territory of Ukraine. For this they created special structures – Einsatzgruppen, Sonderkommandos. To enhance these departments, so-called auxiliary police were used, which were employed in mass exterminations of the Holocaust. They were formed from the local population, Soviet prisoners of war, former employees of the Soviet police. It is possible that OUN members were among them too. Their ethnic composition included not only Ukrainians, but also Russians and other nationalities. The local population took part in the Jewish pogroms too, but they were not only Ukrainian by nationality. Most of them were not OUN members or other nationalist organizations; neither did they necessarily adhere to nationalist views.

For instance, the HQ of the German Einsatzgruppe arrived to Lviv on 1 July 1941, the second day after the German army occupied the city. At this time the Jewish pogrom took place. A common myth is that the alleged main organizers and executors of the massacre were members of the OUN and the soldiers of the “Nachtigall” battalion.

In fact, the leadership of the OUN (b) in its April 1941 regulations of the Second II Great Assembly indicated that its main aim is to obtain a Ukrainian state, and the organization of pogroms are attempts of external forces to distract the “Ukrainian masses” from that goal, using their anti-Jewish sentiments.

Nachtigall as a military unit as well did not take part either organizing not carrying out the massacre. One of the soldiers later recalled the battalion commander Roman Shukhevych ordered not to engage in violence against the civilian population. In addition, the involvement of Nachtigall in the pogrom not confirmed at the hearing of the case Theodor Oberlander after the war in West Germany. Moreover, recently declassified KGB documents showed that the accusations against the soldiers of this battalion were part of the Soviet secret police operation of 1959-1960.

Of course, some of the soldiers of the battalion, as well as some Ukrainian nationalists, could have participated in the pogrom with their own motives. However, its main instigators and organizers of the pogrom were Germans, who managed to direct anti-Soviet sentiments of the local population into the channel of antisemitism.

Unfortunately, the local population did take part in pogroms and other antisemitic actions on the territory of Ukraine. But they were not only Ukrainians, but also Russians, Poles, and representatives of other nationalities. Among them could have been members of Ukrainian nationalist organizations or persons with nationalist views. But references about the absence of wide support for Jewish pogroms among the local population are easily found even in the German documents of the period of World War II.
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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Caduce62 le Mar 10 Mai - 15:44

A Toula, en Russie, aux commémorations du 9 mai 1945 ont assisté des vétérans russes de la guerre actuelle contre l'Ukraine, qui n'existe pas officiellement.
On expose ses ordures handicapées !!


В Туле на праздник победы привезли ветеранов захвата Донбасса которых там нет! !!!

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Re: Et en Russie !

Message  Александр le Jeu 12 Mai - 10:30

Bah, ils ne font qu'obéir aux ordres qu'on leur donne . . .

A propos des toiles retrouvées près de la Moldavie, réaction poupou:

Russia's FSB said to have set sights on paintings stolen from Italy, found in Ukraine

Russia's FSB Federal Security Service has been developing its own operation to track down 17 precious paintings stolen from a museum in Verona, Italy, and recently recovered in Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian State Border Service.


The stolen art was found on Turunchuk Island on the Dniester River in Odesa region's Biliayivsky district / youtube.com


"During the investigation, the border guards have learnt that the search for the paintings was also in the sphere of the Russian FSB's interests, and the thieves were taken by the Russian side under control. What is more, the FSB planned its own operation to relocate the pictures to Russian-controlled Transdniestria [a partially recognized state located on the eastern Moldovan border with Ukraine]," the Ukrainian agency said.

Having identified members of the criminal group and the way they had transported the paintings, including works by Tintoretto, Rubens and Mantegna, the Ukrainian border guards, investigators and military prosecutors found a cache storing the stolen art on Turunchuk Island on the Dniester River in Odesa region's Biliayivsky district between Ukraine and Moldova, the service's press service reported.



The Ukrainian law enforcers worked closely with their Moldovan counterparts to identify the thieves and track down the paintings. The criminal group included citizens of Ukraine, Moldova and Russia. The investigators found that the works of art had been mailed to Odesa region from Moldova for further sale in Ukraine and Russia.

As part of the investigation, the Ukrainian military prosecutors plan to invite Italian experts and officials in to authenticate the paintings and formalize their handover.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has already hailed the Ukrainian investigators' work as a "brilliant operation" and said it had demonstrated Ukraine's efficient fight against art smuggling.

The presidential press service reported that the paintings were seized on May 6 and tests conducted on May 7 confirmed that these are the original works of art.

The paintings worth from EUR 15 million to EUR 20 million were stolen from Verona's Castelvecchio museum last November.

Read alsoUkraine recovers four paintings stolen from Dutch museum

In March, the Italian authorities announced the arrest of 13 suspects in the case in Italy and the ex-Soviet nation of Moldova.

Director of the Ukrainian State Tax Service's investigation department Petro Tsyhykal reported that the paintings search operation conducted by the Italian police was dubbed "Twins," as twin brothers were involved in the theft. One of them worked as a museum guard. The criminals acted out an attack on the museum's guards and stole the paintings, which were allegedly ordered by a private art collector from a Russian region, most probably, the Chechen Republic.




Inquiétant:



Kremlin ‘really thinking about occupying Baltic countries,’ former RISI expert says







Most commentators have dismissed as overblown suggestions that Moscow is preparing to occupy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania because they are members of NATO and the EU and because such a Russian action would lead to a major military conflict between Moscow and the West.

Among Russian commentators who have talked about a possible Russian military thrust to occupy the Baltic countries is Rostislav Ishchenko whose April 16 article attracted both widespread attention and ridicule as nothing more than a Russian effort at ideological intimidation.

But as US-based Russian commentator Kseniya Kirillova points out, “certain experts are certain that Ishchenko’s article reflects perfectly well the point of view of the Kremlin” and thus deserves to be taken most seriously.

Among those taking that view is Aleksandr Sytin, a former researcher with the influential Russian Institute of Strategic Studies (RISI) which was established within the Russian SVR [Russian Foreign Intelligence Service – Ed.] and now is part of the Russian Presidential Administration.

According to Sytin, “all the signs of the development of a military mobilization scenario are present” in Russia, something that reflects “the deepening economic crisis, decline in the standard of living and the radical rise in the number of unemployed.” This is most obvious opposite Ukraine but it also involves the Baltic countries.


A map of the Baltic region after Russian aggression from Rostislav Ishchenko’s article in NewsBalt (Image: newsbalt.ru)

Regarding Ishchenko’s argument in favor of Russia’s invasion and occupation of the Baltic states, Sytin says that it should be understood in terms of “the close alliance between Russia Today and RISI” and “the traditional tactic of the Russian authorities” who seek to structure public opinion in advance of their actions.

“Political experts and analysts throw out into society various ideas,” he argues, “the media push them forward and multiply then and they thus, as if directly from the textbook of the history of the CPSU, these ideas ‘seize the masses,’ and then the ruling circles only carry them out in real politics in correspondence with ‘the will of the people.’”

According to Sytin, his many years at RISI taught him that when the media feature a large number of articles describing in positive ways a particular foreign policy action that means that “in the Kremlin, they are really thinking about it and making calculations.” Given that Ishchenko’s argument fits in the general line, this interpretation is even more likely.

That line, the former RISI staffer says, involves trying to elevate Russia’s status in the world to where it was in 1945 and “also to ‘save’ peoples at a minimum in Eastern Europe and in an ideal one all European peoples from ‘the noxious influence’ of the US by exploiting contradictions between them and the weakness of the EU.”

That is exactly the argument Ishchenko made, Sytin says, adding that he is confident that this is the kind of thing people in the Kremlin are thinking about but have not yet calculated the real costs of what they are proposing because they hope that the threat of action will be enough to force the West or at least Europe to compromise.

The entire West needs to understand, he concludes, that this is what Vladimir Putin and his regime are about, that “the era of a ‘good’ and agreeable Russia remains in the past,” and that “the aggressiveness of the current Kremlin is creating a danger much larger than that which came from ‘the evil empire’ under the name of the USSR.”

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http://forum-ukrainien.forumactif.org/viewtopic.forum?t=1479
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